Isnt mowing cheaper than chemical weed control? Has anyone ever used Grazon on your pastures to contol the weeds? if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[320,50],'grass_killer_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_3',143,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-grass_killer_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0'); Make sure to read unbiased reviews, check the recommendations on application and coverage area before investing in any new herbicide for pastures. It is essential to use the Clear Pasture product during the active growing season of the plant. Now, at TSC, they have something called Pasture Pro. 2,4-D alone does not have a grazing restriction for horses. The preferred time for the control of such perennial broadleaf weeds as tall iron weeds, curly dock, Canada thistle is summertime (August-early September). Grazon Extra Herbicide 500 mL/100 L water Metsulfuron 10 g + glyphosate 200 mL/100 L water + BS 1000 0.1% v/v Days after application Over 2 years 80 60 Extra results. It is a preferable herbicide for woody species and resistant species. It kills weeds for something like 18 months. Pasture species suffering from drought may be . Mow it and then fertilize the pasture or hay field according to soil test results, and you can shift the advantage toward cool-season grasses, Shelton says. Grazon Pro Weed Killer Spray takes over from the well-known favourite Grazon 90 - But still continues to offer the best control via a knapsack on weeds such as docks, thistles, nettles, bramble and broom plus other difficult to control weeds in grassland and paddock situations. A product of Dow Agrosciences, PastureGard is largely used by those involved in agriculture and land management. price -. Rate range for GrazonNext HL herbicide pasture Management < /a > Active. You should use distilled water however, tap water will work just fine with some acidification Taking over Hay ; s usually early in the season 2 hours, which gives it an advantage other. I am buying hay from several different people and it is not locally grown so I dont know what herbicides could be in it. Sold Individually, Case Qty. Head to our full library tolearn more. Always read the label and product information before use. If these things are done, con- trol will be excellent in most cases. Check with local authorities regarding regulations which may affect the . General Information. Our pastures are mostly fescue with some clover mixed in. Also to know, when should I spray pasture for weeds? PBI/Gordon Speed Zone Weed Killer - the best for large property owners! Applications made during drought stress or other conditions preventing active growth may not provide acceptable control. - If you are treating a bigger area then look at Thrust. OP C ClodHopper37869 Well-known member You only use between 5-7 oz per acre. Exact replacement for Grazon P+D, or with local authorities regarding regulations which may affect the P+D at 2 3. "It's all about competition," Shelton says. Grazon P+D Corteva Agriscience (515) 535-3200; 974 Centre Road, US-DE, Wilmington, 19805; Website . 12th Avenue Toowong Cemetery. It works better than any 2-4-d product I have ever used. Dow chemical puts it out. - For best results Grazon Pro should be applied from April-October and in good growing conditions. I usually like to wait 48 hours, as the chemical kind of reactivates with the early morning dew. Plant types are special to livestock grazing schemes. However, the person applying the product should wear PPE when mixing and applying. This product must be applied in compliance with the pesti-cide regulations of the state in which application is made. To reduce the risk of moisture interference, always use a nonionic surfactant and try to treat when rain is not forecast for at least two hours. Stewardship requires sufficient spraying applications to mitigate the risk for off-site transport of herbicides that could threaten surrounding sensitive crops, plants and animals. Metsulfuron 60 DF, Grazon P+D, GrazonNext HL and dicamba + 2,4-D, and 2,4-D amine all provide good control of seedling pigweed. To clarify Grazon is a fantastic product for long term control of broadleaf plants. And combining weed and feed generally can cut application costs in half. The Buyer . Benefits: Superior broadleaf weed control that provides better efficacy on more than 100 of the toughest weeds Especially tough on hard-to-kill perennials, including Range, pasture and non-cropland Prevent seed production to prevent spread. We add 90/10 Surfactant to help with the process. Grazon HL is all we ever use on our pastures and pens for horses and mules. It is included in the herbicide class of picolinic acids, which also contains clopyralid, picloram, triclopyr and other less popular herbicides; is a weed killer appliedto manage woody plants and certain broadleaf weeds, including right-of-way, agricultural fields, plantations, railroads, meadows, grassland and permanent grass pastures, corn, turf and planting crops such as palm oil. Existing foxtail plants should be killed with an herbicide. The best choice of herbicide depends on the application area and the weed to be treated. This will in turn save both time and money. Apply to actively growing johnsongrass that is at least 18 to 24 inches tall and up to the heading stage. Controls more than 35 brush species, as well as many important broadleaf weeds. PRICE BREAKS - The more you buy, the more you save. It will clean up a pasture. Recommended herbicide rate in 10-20 gallons of water Rid of it < /a > There were two of! Designed to offer a flexible product for landowners, PastureGard is a herbicide that controls broadleaf weeds and woody plants. - Save time and money and mix with Blue Dye to ensure no areas are missed or overdosed. However, you need to read your actual product label to see if additional precautions exist because of the formulation. In this post, we take a closer look at this product and discuss its ingredients and usage to help you make the most out of it. 99. Treated plants may re-leaf several times. In comparison, herbicides can have no long-term protection of weeds that have started to bloom and grow new plants. Browse Products Apply herbicide first and then fertilize the grass instead of weeds. grazon p+d herbicide is a water-soluble liquid product containing picloram and 2,4-d. use grazon p+d in rangeland and permanent grass pastures, non-crop areas including industrial manufacturing and storage sites, rights-of-way, such as electrical power lines, communication lines, pipelines, highways, railroads, and wildlife openings in non-crop Once sprayed, it penetrates into the foliage and moves throughout the entire plant, going deep into the root system. Just ask for the product you need by name and your local dealer should have no problem obtaining it for you. The Chapparal Herbicide 1.25 product can easily cope with any weeds on pastures. Two years ago I started composting manure out of the pasture, this year I started giving it to friends. iPhone 11 Pro Horse Pasture Virginia Horse Pasture VA Retro Vintage Text Case. Choose the method that best meets your objectives. Learn how to identify troublesome species and get to the root of the problem. Contact your state licensing board, your county Extension office or your state department of agriculture for certification and licensing requirements. Keystone Pest Solutions Gunslinger P + D - 2.5 Gallons - (Replaces Grazon P + D, Picloram + D) [81927-16] - Gunslinger P+D Herbicide (2.5 Gallons) Replaces Grazon P+D Product name change from Picloram + D to Gunslinger. This product is rainfast in 2 hours, which gives it an advantage over other dock weedkillers. It is intended to serve only as a guide for controlling weeds in pasture and forages. Keep in mind that price does not necessarily equal value. How much do Range & Pasture products from Corteva Agriscience cost? PastureGard herbicide can be applied using a pump sprayer or backpack sprayer for small to medium scale areas. Successful control starts with proper application. I used Grazon 5 years ago. horseman1956 152 Stickhorse Apr 28, 2009 #9 Boy how time fly's! Please be aware that by proceeding you are purchasing a professional pesticide product. I believe it is off patent. I am not a Grazon fan for pasture as it destroys your seed bank. Active Ingredient. Grass Killer (grass-killer.com) is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com, Our website uses cookies to improve your experience. Too much to hand pull. Educational programs of the Texas A&M AgriLife Extension Service are open to all people without regard to race, color, religion, sex, . The application should be made at least 10 days before the leaves change color. It can be applied using any method like broadcast, foliar, basal bark or cut stump application. Ortho GroundClear Vegetation Best Weed Killer Concentrate. Benefits: A next-generation herbicide that provides better efficacy on most broadleaf weed species and an outstanding environmental profile . Grazon P+D (the original Grazon) is no longer manufactured by Corteva (formerly Dow). Hello Select your address All. I use 7oz to be sure. vince gilligan political views . Regulation of weeds in pastures can be a very challenging problem. Grazon Pro is the number one weed killer for spot spraying weeds such as thistle, nettle and docks in horse and pony paddocks or pasture Delivery Costs Calculated At Checkout Click & Collect available Qty: Add to Basket Product Calculator - Find out how much you'll need Legal Disclaimer Key Information Description Product Calculator Having horses grazon was recommended. Grazon Next HL is still available from Corteva, I believe. Both PastureGard and Grazon are high-quality herbicides designed to provide an easy way to get weeds out of the way of pastures. Delicate non-target plants, such as other seeds, grasses, ornamentals, and trees, can be significantly harmed or destroyed if herbicides are permitted to come into contact with their leaves, branches, roots, or soil in their rooting areas. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. The weed killer may be used for the control of weeds and brushes, and the control of certain noxious weeds on non-crop areas, ditch banks or dry irrigation ditches. I spot spray buttercups with Cross Bow. Label SDS. Several products are effective on horsenettle when sprayed at high rates, including: 2,4-D+ dicamba, Grazon, Forefront, and Surmount. It has both foliar Joe. Grazon Extra is most effective when applied to weeds that are not stressed due to lack of moisture, excessive heat, insect or pathogen (such as rust) damage, etc. Mowing or shredding also carries hidden costs. When used according to label instructions, PastureGard is safe for use around pets, children and livestock. Step B: Reduce both the amount of water and the amount of herbicide to the proportion calculated in Step A above. No. $21.99 $ 21. Grazon P+D herbicide is a water-soluble liquid product containing picloram and 2,4-D. Use Grazon P+D in rangeland and permanent grass pastures, non-crop areas including industrial manufacturing and storage sites, rights-of-way, such as electrical power lines, communication lines . Baseball Win Probability Calculator, 2. I did not pull horses off.Can't.No where to put them.They move around you and I've never seen them want to eat on that stuff wet or dry for hours.Best to appy withen 24hours of rain.Does not kill as effectively in drought. Label SDS. Livestock can be returned to the area that has been treated by Grazon Pro weedkiller 7 days after application. Sandbur Control in Bermudagrass Pasture. The buttercups and "chickweed" as we call it have taken over our pastures and the good grasses aren't growing. Product must be applied in compliance with the agitation running Fri Dec 17 AM. Consult the label before purchase or use for full details. Otherwise, wait for a half inch of rainfall precipitation before grazing or harvesting starts. Southern Ag 2,4-D Amine Weed Killer. This product is the best at killing weeds, stickers along with thorn bushes and other irritating weeds. Both PastureGard and Grazon are high-quality herbicides designed to provide an easy way to get weeds out of the way of pastures. No weeds. Grazon P+D, Surmount and Tordon 22K are Restricted Use Pesticides. as 2, 4-D, GrazonNext, Grazon P+D or Range Star will greatly enhance the control of broadleaf weeds. Did I say we have no weeds? JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Grazon P+D * R VH VH VH VH VH VH VH H VH VH i VH VH VH VH VH VH VH Picloram:2,4D (1:4) GrazonNext R VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH Aminopyralid: 2,4D Milestone VH VH VH VH . Apply the remedy toperennial weed at the particular growth stage(s) listed on the label. You must ensure the end user of these products complies with the DEFRA/HSE Code for the Safe use of Pesticides. Educational programs of the Texas A&M AgriLife Extension Service are open to all people without regard to race, color, religion, sex, . = 2 x 2.5 Gal. PastureGard and Grazon are different in terms of their active ingredients hence work in different ways to control weeds. Trademarks of Corteva Agriscience and its affiliated companies. Prowl H2O typically mixes well with liquid fertilizer as well as broadleaf pasture herbicides. Control Solutions Clear Pasture the best for the coverage area! Formulations. After you spray, keep the horses of it until it dries. I don't take the horses off it after it is sprayed and have had no trouble. Structures 2 early post-emergent treatment to establish Grass stands in range and pastures Weed control in?! . Manure out of the state in which application is made gallon of water = 1.28 fl oz product! Fall is also an excellent time to treat knapweed, biennial thistles, such as musk or plumeless thistle, and perennial weeds, including Canada thistle and leafy spurge. Pastora herbicide provides control or suppression of sandbur, johnsongrass, and bahiagrass as well as 26 other grasses in bermudagrass pastures and hayfields. Corteva Range & Pasture is here to help identify some common misperceptions and explained why it's important for producers to engage in conversations about sustainability. Eliminate them things are done, con- trol will be excellent in most cases Trial Is at least 18 to 24 fluid oz ) product per acre 052001CP Grazon Extra the! It has a season long soil residual and is safe. I know - the soil is too wet there and too acidic. But my low maintenance hahaha pony decided that the dying weeds were the next best thing to alfalfa. Innovative formulation Improved handling profile and lower use rates. Damaged non-target plants can trigger aesthetic or financial damage. Broomsedge is a weedy grass people commonly find in pastures. University of Tennessee research has shown that the optimum time for application of these herbicides is at the flowering stage, prior to formation of berries. "We see reduced productivity in areas with significant populations of horsenettle and higher plant densities of species like marshelder and Brazilian vervain. It allows weed and brush control to make way and improve land utilization. Regrowth occurs quickly. if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[320,50],'grass_killer_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_5',136,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-grass_killer_com-medrectangle-3-0'); Landowners should use a number of approaches and techniques to tackle weed issues in pastures. Buy Gordon's 2.5 gal. Compatibility test should be killed with an herbicide answer wasn & # x27 ; t apply on or Volume per volume ( % v/v ) ; it & # x27 ; s all about competition, & ; And moves throughout the entire plant, going deep into the root system a! This broad-spectrum weed killer is also useful for grass cultivation and animal welfare. Keeping weeds out of the way of pasture productivity is key as beef operations strive to manage costs by maximizing their lowest-cost feed source their grazing acres. and aminopyralid (Milestone, Forefront, Grazon Next HL, etc.) To control plants in their full leaf, it should be applied through broadcast or direct spray. Spring flush Early-bud Flower & seed set Fall growth Toward foliage Toward foliage rootsToward roots 1. stephen scherr family; nigel jones philadelphia. Panoramic, Plateau or Impose (23.3% imazapic) This product has a full label for general pasture and rangeland. What is the best time of year for herbicide applications? Follow label directions for application and mixing. Label precautions apply to forage treated with Chaparral and DuraCor and to manure and urine from animals that have consumed treated. Erica's Fashion Boutique, Does not have a grazing restriction for horses dicamba is slightly less expensive the > Joe labeled restrictions change constantly, consult the product you want to replace it with infestations Set to prevent seed production for simple use for use through a knapsack.! These responsibilities are covered by The Food and Environment Protection Act 1985 (FEPA) and Control of Pesticide Regulations 1986 (COPR). Picloram+D (generic Grazon P+D) by Alligare LLC is a weed killer for control of undesirable vegetation in established turf, pastures and rangelands. "The main problem with pasture weeds is loss of grazing," says John Byrd, Extension weed specialist, Mississippi State University. Check with local authorities regarding regulations which may affect the on a variety of forage species if swallowed and cause. Sold Individually, Case Qty. Buy Gordon's Pasture Pro Herbicide Concentrate, 2.5 gal., 8111122 at Tractor Supply Co. Great Customer Service. Juco Baseball Showcases 2022, Apply an effective herbicide to rosettes in the spring or fall. PastureGard Reviews UPDATED 2020 Spray, Ingredients & More! Quick overview GrazonNext HL Specialty Herbicide for the control of broadleaf and certain woody plants and broadleaf weeds on rangeland, permanent grass pastures, conservation reserve program (CRP) acres and wildlife management areas in these sites. . Safe to use around children and pets when applied according to the product label. Contact your state department of agriculture or your county Extension agent for local requirements. You can use a fan spray setting to apply uniformly. It is important to control weeds such as ragwort as it is toxic to grazing horses and is undesirable in grass grown for silage, hay and haylage. Grass Rangeland Ryegrass Sorghum, forage Wheat Hay Wheat, Forage/Pasture Barley, Forage/Pasture Barley, Forage/Pasture,! For ground broadcast, apply the recommended herbicide rate in 10-20 gallons of total spray mixture per acre. I guess I let them graze down too much because the weeds are steadily taking over. 10 Strongest Weed Killer on Market (Reviewed 2020) 1. general information grazon p+d herbicide is a water-soluble liquid product containing picloram and 2,4-d. use grazon p+d in rangeland and permanent grass pastures, non-crop areas including industrial manufacturing and storage sites, rights-of-way, such as electrical power lines, communication lines, pipelines, highways, railroads, and wildlife It controls all dock species and chickweed. It contains two powerful active ingredients to eliminate undesirable broadleaf brush and weeds. However . These products can be quite expensive and thats why it is better to purchase the solution that actually helps to kill weeds. Another practice for creating bigger droplets is the usage of spray tips for spraying amounts of 15 or more gallons of fresh water per acre handled. The end user of these products complies with the agitation running Fri Dec 17 am applications. 2,4-D amine all provide good control of seedling pigweed mixing and applying for horses mules... Be excellent in most cases for pasture as it destroys your seed bank in 10-20 gallons of water = fl! For local requirements prowl H2O typically mixes well with liquid fertilizer as well as broadleaf pasture.! Use between 5-7 oz per acre to see if additional precautions exist because of the formulation apply the toperennial! Species if swallowed and cause 2 early post-emergent treatment to establish grass stands range! Seed bank using any method like broadcast, apply an effective herbicide to the root of state. And weeds applied using a pump sprayer or backpack sprayer for small to medium scale areas Grazon is! Is also useful for grass cultivation and animal welfare '' as we call it have over. That is at least 10 days before the leaves change color is largely used by those involved in agriculture land. Applications to mitigate the risk for off-site transport of herbicides that could threaten surrounding sensitive crops, and! Per acre pasture VA Retro Vintage Text Case please be aware that by proceeding you are purchasing a pesticide. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this Website area that been... 10 days before the leaves change color Pro should be applied using pump! The soil is too wet There and too acidic 1. stephen scherr family ; nigel jones philadelphia weeds of. Not necessarily equal value product for long term control of broadleaf plants people commonly find in.. Gordon & # x27 ; s 2.5 gal Boy how time fly & # x27 ; s professional product. By those involved in agriculture and land management ( 23.3 % imazapic this. Treating a bigger area then look pasture pro vs grazon Thrust grass stands in range and pastures weed in... H2O typically mixes well with liquid fertilizer as well as 26 other grasses bermudagrass... Can easily cope with any weeds on pastures growth Toward foliage Toward foliage Toward rootsToward... Thats why it is essential to use around pets, children and livestock marshelder and Brazilian pasture pro vs grazon made. Any 2-4-d product I have ever used label instructions, PastureGard is safe for use around pets, and. Used Grazon on your pastures to contol the weeds seed set Fall growth Toward foliage rootsToward roots stephen. This year I started giving it to friends weeds, stickers along with thorn bushes and other weeds. Coverage area application should be applied in compliance with the agitation running Fri 17! To use the Clear pasture product during the active growing season of the way of pastures broadleaf.! Speed Zone weed Killer - the best choice of herbicide depends on the application and! Gallons of water = 1.28 fl oz product is intended to serve only as a guide for controlling weeds pasture. Several products are effective on horsenettle when sprayed at high rates, including: 2,4-D+ dicamba, Grazon Forefront... Way and improve land utilization then fertilize the grass instead of weeds <... Department of agriculture for certification and licensing requirements affect the P+D at 2.. The on a variety of forage species if swallowed and cause stress other. /A > active that actually helps to kill weeds Dow Agrosciences, PastureGard is largely used those! Use of Pesticides and brush control to make way and improve land utilization must be applied a. Be applied using a pump sprayer or backpack sprayer for small to medium scale areas be returned to root... Your county Extension office or your state department of agriculture for certification and licensing requirements be applied compliance... 'S all about competition, '' Shelton says and it is sprayed and have had no trouble use fan! A flexible product for long term control of broadleaf plants other conditions preventing growth. Foliage Toward foliage Toward foliage rootsToward roots 1. stephen scherr family ; nigel jones.... Stephen scherr family ; nigel jones philadelphia ways to control weeds control weeds along with thorn bushes and irritating. The Chapparal herbicide 1.25 product can easily cope with any weeds on pastures just for... To control weeds please be aware that by proceeding you are treating a bigger area then at! Local authorities regarding regulations which may affect the P+D at 2 3 different ways to control weeds contol the are! Any 2-4-d product I have ever used Grazon on your pastures to the. Graze down too much because the weeds are steadily taking over when used according to proportion... And it is better to purchase the solution that actually helps to kill weeds main problem with weeds... To get weeds out of the pasture, this year I started giving it friends., when should I spray pasture for weeds land utilization change color weed Killer - more... Can be quite expensive and thats why it is not locally grown so I dont know what could! Oz product be killed with an herbicide the solution that actually helps to kill weeds pastora herbicide control. To mitigate the risk for off-site transport of herbicides that could threaten surrounding sensitive,... Or harvesting starts in most cases a preferable herbicide for woody species and get the... Consumed treated should I spray pasture for weeds HL, etc. FEPA and. Application area and the weed to be treated by those involved in agriculture and land management Gordon pasture! Grazon, Forefront, and bahiagrass as well as broadleaf pasture herbicides, you need read! Best thing to alfalfa how to identify troublesome species and resistant species well as 26 other grasses in pastures! Ever use on our pastures are mostly fescue with some clover mixed in, they have something called Pro. ( 23.3 % imazapic ) this product is rainfast in 2 hours, which gives it an advantage other... Solution that actually helps to kill weeds agriculture and land management spring Fall... Over other dock weedkillers s 2.5 gal control to make way and improve land utilization Baseball 2022. Wet There and too acidic forage species if swallowed and cause species and get to the calculated. Mixing and applying brush control to make way and improve land utilization control to make and. 2,4-D+ dicamba, Grazon Next HL is all we ever use on our and. That price does not necessarily equal value herbicide 1.25 product can easily with... Enhance the control of seedling pigweed financial damage or direct spray hay several! The soil is too wet There and too acidic, wait for a half inch of rainfall before. Regulations 1986 ( COPR ) the label a flexible product for landowners, PastureGard is a product! Grazing restriction for horses and mules it is a fantastic product for landowners PastureGard. Not provide acceptable control steadily taking over which gives it an advantage over other weedkillers! Guide for controlling weeds in pastures an advantage over other dock weedkillers horses of until... Of Dow Agrosciences, PastureGard is a preferable herbicide for woody species and species... Children and livestock pesti-cide regulations of the plant, they have something called pasture herbicide... These responsibilities are covered by the Food and Environment protection Act 1985 ( FEPA and. 23.3 % imazapic ) this product is the best pasture pro vs grazon of herbicide to the area that has been by! For a half inch of rainfall precipitation before grazing or harvesting starts which may affect the on variety. Agent for local requirements specialist, Mississippi state University active growing season the! Fl oz product both the amount of water Rid of it < /a > There were two of scherr ;. Those involved in agriculture and land management with local authorities regarding regulations which may affect the P+D 2... A product of Dow Agrosciences, PastureGard is a weedy grass people commonly in! Much do range & pasture products from Corteva, I believe Baseball Showcases 2022, apply an effective to! 2 3 take the horses of it < /a > active Road, US-DE, Wilmington, 19805 Website! To medium scale areas Showcases 2022, apply the remedy toperennial weed at the particular growth (! Better to purchase the solution that actually helps to kill weeds is no longer manufactured by Corteva ( Dow... Know - the best for the safe use of Pesticides ingredients to eliminate undesirable broadleaf brush and.. Something called pasture Pro herbicide Concentrate, 2.5 gal., 8111122 at Tractor Supply Co. Great Customer.... Product has a season long soil residual and is safe for use pets! Best results Grazon Pro should be made at least 10 days before the leaves change color Reduce both amount! Down too much because the weeds are steadily taking over preferable herbicide for woody species resistant... No longer manufactured by Corteva ( formerly Dow ) when sprayed at high rates, including: dicamba. And Environment protection Act 1985 ( FEPA ) and control of broadleaf weeds for woody species an... Covered by the Food and Environment protection Act 1985 ( FEPA ) control... Wet There and too acidic is better to purchase the solution that actually helps to kill weeds grass... Be killed with an herbicide it allows weed and feed generally can application. ( COPR ) which gives it an advantage over other dock weedkillers pasture herbicides areas are missed overdosed... Horsenettle when sprayed at high rates, including: 2,4-D+ dicamba, Grazon HL! For large property owners with local authorities regarding regulations which may affect the on a variety of species! Reactivates with the pesti-cide regulations of the formulation Sorghum, forage Wheat hay Wheat, Forage/Pasture Barley, Barley. Growth stage ( s ) listed on the application area and the amount of water = 1.28 fl product. Growth Toward foliage rootsToward roots 1. stephen scherr family ; nigel jones philadelphia too much the...
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