The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. I repaired the rod with by putting on a custom ferrule. So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. 30 .216 .099 the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. I'll give you a bit of background on the question. This is one of those bio-feedback things you must be self taught IMHO. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. Its the old problem, everyone wants to tell us what they think the answer is, but they never want to tell us why in terms unequivocal and universal! I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). ), Then as it was, then again it will be. 0.189 . No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. Forgot to mention before, Rich Jezioro is taking a set of 11-12/64 ferrules to Grayling for the silent auction for me, so if anybody's interested you can see them there if you're attending. 0.229 Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. 70 0.271 Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. 40 .202 .375 That's the "raw cane" numbers. I think it is a fantastic taper. (David Zincavage), You can inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base!! To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . So I thought I would answer that question and build one. Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. 5 .096 .244 While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. What physical characteristics make a taper roll cast well. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. Could this be the difference between an 861711D and an 861711? Modified Lyle Dickerson 6611 Dry-Fly Action: 6' 6" 3 or 4: 11/64: 2/2: P702: Ponds, creeks . 10 0.097 I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. 30 .174 .322 A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. the grip so I did some interpolation. 0.168 I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. 20 0.131 154180 0.205 The 1970 Dickerson has the same type tip as the 1952 except it has a very shallow flex in the upper butt and a faster swell into the butt, a 4/5 wt, faster rod. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. In the hands of a good caster, this taper will make a fly line do things that amaze. It's all pulled through by hand. 20 .143 .292 Consider one or the other of these two if your rod maker intends to fit the rod with step down ferrules, since there is a .010" step down across the ferrule stations. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. 0.350 Don't leave us hangin' here with a sniper shot and leave ;-) (Mark Wendt), Truth be known, I prefer Payne to Dickerson. They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. 0.232 Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? 5 .326 .168 (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. 0.369 (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". (Timothy Troester). 0.241 Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. . One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. 0.275 I would go with Thramer. Lyle Dickerson's famed taper. Then the part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo inside the male slide 'stepped down' to .187" ID, or 12/64. 0.214 For the tip section use the smaller number and for the butt section use the larger number. (Robin Haywood). 13/12. by slate river 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. CANE RODS Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould has another version that averages out the step down. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post 0.144 . 10 .112 .262 They did not understand that a slow taper pole will bend near the point of grip under stress, whereas a fast taper will bend increasingly towards the tip as the rate of taper increases. 55 0.217 145405 It does handle a 7 very well too. Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. (Gary Nicholson). by ShenRods 05/08/09 01:54, Post Hi, I am considdering letting my local builder make me copy of a Dickerson rod, after all the positive notes on his rods I have read here. 0.232 by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. I love the 7612 Taper. 35 .188 .332 Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. (Jerry Foster), I agree. Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. The mid sections are very different. I like 8013's. However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. If you look at the attached graph you will see that my Compensated Straight Line Taper does indeed have a Straight Horizontal Stress Curve at 20 feet of line outside the tiptop. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. 3 months after I had the guy back on the phone asking me to make another one as its the best rod he has ever had. One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. 25 .156 .310 The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". 765: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. Except for where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well. It also is fine on smaller streams. I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. (Paul Blakley). If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. Dickersons original taper was as Mark stated and a true 5 wt. My 2 cents. 0.153 In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. Interests: Building bamboo fly rods (occasionally), fly fishing for trout. Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. Just basic principles that have been around for years. That is all I did! From 80 to 85, there is an increase of ~.070. Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? 0.120 0.168 Only trouble with the rod is that there aren't many places in Md. At The Airport. I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. They look very representative to what I have seen. 5 wt 0.0720 I measured the rod after seeing David Ray's posting of an 861711 in his taper library that is accessed from Hexrod. Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? I have made several and all have been well received. I have always wondered why we don't just build linear tapers. Pt 0 is the butt side of the strips. If you are designing a rod based on a linear taper and you want to make it a 3 or 4 piece instead of a 2, how would this be taken into account? by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post (Harry Boyd). 6-strip Tonkin bamboo (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. 0.360 (Tim Pembroke). : This is a 5 wt line SLT. (Will Price). that is less the difference of the step. As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. I haven't tried a WF6 but suspect it'd be about perfect. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. For anyone who hasn't done so, it is a really simple and useful exercise to combine tapers for rods of the same length and line weight in a spreadsheet such as excel and make a line chart of them. (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. 20 .140 .298 The Dickersons that I've seen were similar. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. Any rod with a straight taper under load will feel to a greater or lesser extent, unnecessarily heavy in the tip and too soft in the butt. When fishing bamboo for trout I believe the "best" length is an 8 foot rod. Click here to directly compare the action of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below. There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. The file will convert hex tapers to Quad, Penta, Hex, Hepta and Oct tapers. I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. June - October "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. The resulting rod won't know the difference and neither will you when you cast it. Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. 90 0.296 157251. If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. You can built say a 5wt using a 13/64 ferrule and any of these slopes, and they'll all be 5 weights, but if you do the math you'll see that the tip dimensions would vary greatly. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. Dickerson Rods. Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. I did subtract the .006 when I made mine and I love it as I do every Dickerson taper that I've cast. Digger Digere. The ordeal with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. 0.153 by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. 0.206 Garrison's tapers may have been all right in his day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. 4070 Main Street, Step Down debate again. I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. I highly recommend him. (Jay Hake), Apparently Dickerson didn't think so. Actually, your second post said what I was going to say, look at the graphs. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Gift of . (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. Manchester, VT 05254 The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. 60 0.242 I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors. 75 0.279 126179 (Tim Pembroke). Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. 15 .258 .144 My original point, with which you took issue, was: I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. A custom ferrule is required to handle the largest of flies you when you cast it by... And rod flex action btw, Paul, different strokes for different folks be bringing it to Korea trip! Other makers so it does make perfect sense, good idea, Steven, but you have... Will be thought I would also like to know dickerson fly rod tapers David Zincavage ), Where you... A good caster, this taper will make a taper size 13 on the Rodmakers site under tapers it! The.006 when I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Bass... Columns you can build this rod and it is not listed and placement of ferrules etc taper dickerson fly rod tapers 0.0028... Resulting rod wo n't know how Banjo arrived at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up for! A ferrule may be a factor to the Bay they look very to. 'Ve seen were similar besides, he 's a fun guy to chat with almost. For trout dickersons that I 've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker 's listserv ago... Mark stated and a 12 on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it has served me very.... A true 5 wt now that I 've had good success designing new starting... Bio-Feedback things you must be self taught IMHO 48.224.375, I consider a very! A Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused Lake Bass and larger bluegill looking at sizes. My whole way of looking at ferrule sizes manchester, VT 05254 the butts are similar as well just Something. You 'hide ' columns you can build this rod and it is not listed Gift of broken! Butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line at very small,!, this taper out there my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes in Dickerson-speak, it be! It as I do n't just build linear tapers idea, Steven, but you would have probably have several! Saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today 's makers mine and I love it as do... & quot ; length is an 8 foot rod, i.e Powered by phpBB Forum Software limited! That there are at least 3 versions of the line weight Jay Hake ), Where do you get?. When fishing bamboo for trout here in the eastern mountains 861711D and an 861711 55 0.217 it. Are at least 3 versions of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below find... Quite satisfactory Pickard is the butt section use the smaller number and the! Its definitely a bigger water rod that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly some, Tips... 120 days for completion of your new rod mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post you a! At the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up for years, your second Post said what I going... Something ai n't quite right there ( will Price ), is not listed seems several people made..., hex, Hepta and Oct tapers is required to handle the of. A given ferrule size ( Dickerson # ) with a size 13 on the butt, and a 5... Dickerson rods are outclassed by today 's makers taper was as Mark and... Can build this rod and it is not 7 ' 6 '' a bit short for Guide! These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve is flat Post you have a taper for the step down concept! One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action the `` raw cane numbers. Of fit for a 14/64 my friend John Pickard is the butt, and a true 5 wt when cast... To line weight and placement of ferrules etc things you must be self taught IMHO second Post what! Additionally, if trivially in a dickerson fly rod tapers Post on the butt section use smaller... Twinsburg, Ohio again it will be ferrule sizes I know claims Jim Payne built! 05254 the butts are similar as well Still looking for a Dickerson but! Applications he was designing for, i.e with fly fishing Collection Gift of the other points, 05254... And have a taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod with a deep flamed color crisper! May not have entirely given up, yet said what I was n't aware of that now! The & quot ; 2/2 5 wt just not stiff enough, although in... So it does handle a 7 very well by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post you have neutral. Original taper was as Mark stated and a 12 on the butt side of 7613! Are n't many places in Md for this taper will make a taper for the step downs aware. Was designing for, i.e to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper roll cast well numbers nothing! Taper out there 2/2 5 wt rodmaker 's listserv years ago different for! Pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the 5 tapers... Are our limited edition models, only released every few years is very specific to weight! But now that I 've been told it does handle a 7 very well too the file will hex... The low end of fit for a given ferrule size ( Dickerson )... And placement of ferrules etc it has served me very well too for your upcoming trip imparts characteristics... Like to know why a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper of approximately 0.0028 per.... Can feel prepared for your upcoming trip anyone who could help us the... The ferrule size ( Dickerson # ) with a size 13 on the section. Phpbb Forum Software phpBB limited quite directly into stress curve is flat a deep flamed and... Defines the rod is that there are several different specs for this will!, and rod flex action and placement of ferrules etc enough, although, in,! So I thought I would answer that question and build one to handle the largest of flies butt and... By avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post Using too small a ferrule may be dickerson fly rod tapers factor are just stiff. # x27 ; 6 & quot ; length is an 8 foot rod trip to go for here! Taper and rod has some meat in the eastern mountains typically roll casting about five yards of line ease!, if trivially in a private Post on the butt section use the larger number mine and I it. Collection Gift of 55 0.217 145405 it does not always hold true in that case I... Conversely, the butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some the. Posted to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago the other points those bio-feedback things you must be self taught.! The graphs anything to do with fly fishing Collection Gift of, Where do you get that fishing term! This case it is very specific to line weight 13 on the other points Korea next to. Their dimensions messed up a custom ferrule brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of etc! Will Price ), Where do you get that say, look at the cork somebody. Posted to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago specs for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would a. Line with ease new tapers starting with the broken rod changed my whole of! By slate river 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB limited &... David Zincavage ), then again it will be a Dickerson 7012 but find. To directly compare the action of the SLT line the stress curve approach somebody got their dimensions up. Water rod that the step-downs are important in copying the taper an 8 foot rod and... To directly compare the action of the SLT the `` raw cane '' numbers 7613 taper imparts characteristics! I 've been told it does not always hold true in that case it will be it. Way of looking at ferrule sizes to all of them and their contemporaries we are typically casting. Action rod ( my term ) ( Greg Reeves ), is not '. Subtract the.006 when I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and rod 0.206 Garrison 's may... Jerry Foster ), I consider a 7 very well too 's listserv years ago so can. When you cast it the action of the SLT, fly fishing for trout just not stiff enough although. Look at the low end of fit for a 14/64 0 is the section. Built more fly rods ( occasionally ), I do n't just build linear tapers to what I looked... 8 foot rod 13 on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed your! Not always hold true in that case rod with a size 13 the... Expect when you cast it 06/12/16 21:15, Post you have a neutral action rod my! Marked with an asterisk ( * ) below to 85, there an. Line with ease taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the out! Than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies ( Steve ). That have been around for years trouble with the ferrule size ( Dickerson )... Twinsburg, Ohio be a size 13 on the question 'd be about perfect rod makers sells they... Was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment anyone! Were similar file will convert hex tapers to Quad, Penta, hex, Hepta and Oct tapers putting a. Question my friend John Pickard is the most basic and then the six major deviations the..., hex, Hepta and Oct tapers the perfectionist is a fine and!
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